I’ve had rotten luck with sour beers. First it was the Duchesse De Borgogne, which tasted like raspberry jam to me. Too sweet – into the sink it went after I realized I just was never going to finish it. More recently, it was a Nogne O Tyttebaer Wild Ale that tasted so antiseptic-like that I poured it into the sink with malice. Seriously, it was like drinking bacitracin.
I tried again with the Duchesse during Christmas, serving it with prime rib. I figured the sweetness would go well with the meal, which it did, but I still had trouble finishing the bottle. On the Tyttebaer front, many readers have suggested that the beer had gone bad, and that was the reason it tasted like a bandaid. This is a possibility I will be exploring further.
In the meantime, this is driving me nuts! All the beer nerds who I respect just LOOOOVE sour beers and rave about them. This style is very interesting to me, but I haven’t found one that I really enjoy. Hell, I haven’t found one I can finish!
So I ask you, gentle reader, to guide me. Please help me find a way in to the world of sours, a starting-off point for a journey into this style of beer.
If it helps your recommendation, I like all kinds of beer, especially imperials with a lot of character and complexity. I have no preconceived notions about what beer should be, and I’m open to anything. Well, anything except the two sours I’ve had so far – those are off the list!
Any help you can provide is deeply appreciated. I know together we can overcome my palate’s limitations and help bring one more person into the light.
Beer & Whiskey Brothers 
It may be best to start with “wild ale” and then work your way into sour. Some of my favorites include Reinaert Flemish Wild Ale or Allagash Interlude. Boon Oude Geuze is really great too and the Victory Wild Devil may be a bit easier to hunt down.
There’s a bit of acclimation involved with sour and wild beers but once you get into them its a whole new taste palate to explore!
I’ve had and enjoyed Victory Wild Devil on a couple of occasions. It’s complex and tasty. More recently I had a Flying Dog Raging Bitch which is a wild ale of sorts and I thought that, too, was decent.
I’ve heard of the Geuze before, with it being referenced as the prototypical sour beer. I think that’s what I need. When I start folks on Belgians, it’s usually Chimay Red or Blue, which are my standard bearers for Belgians.
It sort of goes belgian > wild > geuze > lambic > crazy funky sour beer as a scale of tartness so working up the ladder gets you a good training in tart before jumping straight into something like a Rodenbach. Geuze will get you into the sours without all the fruit flavoring you’ll find in lambics.
Once it clicks, you’ll be hooked!
I know I poked a bit of fun at you yesterday about the Nogne-O, but it is entirely possible that you just don’t like sour beers.
there is a range of sour beer going from funky to tart to puckeringly sour. You might want to start on the funky side and work your way through many different types of sours. there are Lambic (fruit/unblended), Gueuze, Flanders, and Wild Ale.
Here is a plan of attack, if I may suggest. Start with some of the milder wild ales. This will introduce you into the funky side, Brettanomyces Beer.
– Victory Wild Devil
– Jolly Pumpkin Oro de Calabaza
– Ommegang Ommegedon
– Allagash Interlude
From the wild Ales I would suggest some of the milder Flanders Reds
– Zoetzuur Flemish Ale
– Monk’s Cafe sour Flemish Ale
If you like those, you can set up to the Rodenbach Grand Cru
Then I would try some of the Fruit Lambics (Lindemans tend to be very sweet).
and so on…
For may people sours are an aquired taste and your Taste buds need to be “trained”, but it is also trial and error. For me I don’t go for sweet I would rather have a “puckerlicious” sour.
Kevin and I can Help you pick some stuff out at the Liquor outlet tonight after the beer brawl.
I’ve had the Brett beers and like them, so that’s covered. Maybe the Grand Cru is a goos starting off point. I have it in my head that a sour should be “puckerlicious” as you say, a tasty beer that makes your eye twitch a bit, but in a good way.
Have you ever tried Petrus Pale Ale? It’s sour but the flavor is more citrus than cherry. Try that one to get away from the cherry flavors you would find in beers like Duchesse, Kasteel Rouge or Monks SFA. At least you’ll be able to tell if it’s the cherry flavor or sours in general.
Hmmm…good suggestion. I absolutely loved the Mad Elf this year, and that’s heavy on the cherry. But it’s also sweet. I just had a Dogfish Head Fort(e?), which is a raspberry brew with a big abv and lots if fruity flavor, and I loved it. Does anyone know if that’s a sour beer? It certainly was a little tart…
I never tried the Nogne O Tyttebaer Wild Ale but it sounds like your particular bottle was overtaken by bacteria that ruined it. Band-aid is a hallmark indicator. Sour and funky is one thing; unpalatable is entirely different.
If you didn’t like Duchesse de Bourgogne then I wouldn’t bother with the Lindemann’s fruit lambics. Cantillon has always been a good bet. Hanssens is good too. I’d start with these as they are traditional Euro sour beers. I’ve found that U.S. re-creations, though many are quite good, are pretty much all over the map in intensity.
That’s what I’m looking for, Todd, the standard bearers. The old skool sours that started it all. I always like to begin at the beginning with beers and then explore the variations and interpretations.
And I think you’re right about the infected beer. No one would make something that tastes like that on purpose!
It’s impossible to determine the sourness of a beer based on style descriptions. After all, lambic was traditionally uncarbonated sour beer brewed in one specific region of Belgium and gueuze merely a blend of lambics at different ages and then refermented in a bottle. Plus, if any real gueuze/lambic has been in the bottle for a while it’s likely going to be more sour than one that was recently bottled.
I’ve had wild ales that barely exhibited sourness and some that were crazy sour. It’s best just to experiment with these types of beers and learn as you drink, starting with benchmarks like Cantillon.
As far as Rodenbach goes, It’s a Flemish red and will probably be a bit sweeter like the Duchesse de Bourgogne (at least it was the last time I drank one). Unless you can find a really old one, pre-Palm.
It’s like you’re speaking French, Todd. I understand a bit of what you’re saying but the rest is exotic and exciting. I have a lot to learn about sours – I love it!
Oops! Didn’t mean to geek out. The point I was trying to make is that you can’t rely on style descriptions when it comes to beer fermented and/or aged with souring/funkifying bacteria. They are subject to so many variables that even bottles of the same brand and same batch that were stored differently can be inconsistent. Quite the opposite of macro brews and part of the fun.
Enjoy yourself! I’ve had both a Cantillon Grand Cru Bruocsella and Hanssens Oudbeitje in the last week. I recommend both.
I hear you, Todd, and I love the fact that you’re geeking out. Sours are cool beers, and the complexity of character you so aptly described is the reason I’m so interested in them. There are a lot of variables and nuances with sours, which is one of the more interesting parts of being a beer nerd. I just hope I can get on board.
I don’t have a lot to add here Jim, but to say that yesterday I went to the Brewforia store in Boise and was talking to the owner about your post. I reminded him that I had purchased a Monk’s Cafe Sour and he said that gave him an idea. He ran over to his cooler, pulled out a bottle and started pouring samples. It was interesting in a good way. Cherry, oak, sour, sweet, it almost tasted like wine to me but it is beer. It was good and very carbonated like Champaign. Good stuff made for food pairings.
Sounds a bit like the Duchesse De Borgogne, except that beer isn’t so much sour as it is sweet and a little tart. But it’s very wine / champagne like as well, which I think is a characteristic of these puppies. I want a beer like a sour patch kid – sweet and then sour, but in a good way. My favorites are the green ones.
Here is my recent blurb on the Hanssens if you’re interested: http://www.metrotimes.com/food/story.asp?id=14742
Also consider picking up a bottle of Basque farmhouse cider. B. United imports a really nice one — Sarasola Sagardoa. It’s pretty damn close in sour funkiness to a lambic and cheaper besides. Something like the green sour patch kids without all the sugar.
I love your description of Hanssens as being “better than a romp in the cider house with a mouth full of Lemonheads candy.” It’s exactly what I think a sour should be in my head. That deal in Royal Oak looks good, too.
Are you in SE Michigan? Our sister lives in Royal Oak and teaches in Sterling Heights. She’s the Mike’s Hard Cider Sister. I also lived there all through high school in Romeo. Oh the memories!
Jim, I’m in Ferndale, right next to Royal Oak. I’m sure your sister knows of the nice booze selection at Holiday Market in Royal Oak where I will be in about 30 minutes picking out a bottle of single malt.
Cheers! Have a good weekend all.
Fabulous Ferndale – alright! Enjoy the single malt and your weekend as well, Todd.
I agree on the Monk’s cafe…try it. Lindeman’s Curvee Rene is a good sour with nice dryness, I think Consecration by Russian River is a must. Also, Robenbach is a terrific and widely available version. http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/01/21/lindemans-curvee-rene/ There’s a recent review of Curvee Rene. Also, Fond Gueuze by Saint Louis is awesome. And a lot by Haansens of Dworp or Cantillion are good.
So it’s all good? That a long list of beers. But I haven’t really shopped for sours before, so it’s nice to have a rundown. The real question is what’s available in NJ. I’ve seen Rodenbach, but I’m not sure of the others.
Something tells me I’ll be leaving the beer store with a armload of sour beers tonight. Hopefully I won’t pour ’em all out!
Had some bottles of 1994 Cuvee Rene that were fantastic. As the early 2000 beer started to hit the shelves they seemed to have progressively less depth; I don’t think they date the bottles any more. At any rate, I haven’t bothered trying one since.
Lambic is misunderstood mostly because the majority of people’s first taste is of Lindemans fruit “lambics”. They’re relatively inexpensive, sold everywhere and probably the least lambic of all lambics this side of Sam Adam’s Cranberry Lambic. Try Cantillon Kriek next to Lindemans Kriek and see which one tastes like fruit juice.
I must say Todd you’ve put on a clinic here today, and i appreciate it. Its been very informative. Thanks for chiming in today, and don’t be a stranger in the future.
My pleasure, Don. Hopefully I’m not coming across like a know-it-all dickhead. I just drink a lot and like sour beers especially.
Not at all Todd! we are pretty new to a lot of things in Beer and whiskey for that matter. So we truly appreciate when those who know more inform us and the rest of our readers. Sincerely Thank You. Don’t be a stranger and have a great weekend.
I haven’t been able to get into sours either. Had the Petrus most recently, and just like you, couldn’t get through it. I went to a Saison tasting recently and enjoyed most of what I tried. There was a range of tastes for sure, but most were tart, not sour. The Saison level of tartness seemed to work for me. Thinking maybe I can work my way into sours by way of Saisons.
Chad:
It’s good to see you here man! We’ve been doing the twitter thing, but it is great to see you chime in on the blog! Thanks! As for the Saison tasting, I really wanted to go, but I carpool so it was on a carpool day, and I live out in Marsing, so i wasn’t going to drive all the way back for the tasting. I stopped in Brewforia yesterday just to say hi since I was in the area and Rick and I had some samples out of the kegs, then we sttarted talking about sours so he opened up a bottle of Monk’s Cafe and poured some samples. It is a Flemmish Sour Ale and was pretty good. One word of caution, a little goes a long way, so I would suggest one, serve it cold since it will definetely have a chance to warm up as you drink it, and two share it. We were thinking it sould pair well with Ham and a pungent cheese loke a brie or a aged sharp white cheddar.
I like a good saison when the mood strikes, but when I hear “sour” I imagine something more challenging and complex. Something sweet, earthy and with a bit of a pucker factor on the back end. I think I need to find that perfect gateway sour, the one that takes me to the line and lets me acquire the taste.
Or maybe (I just realized) I’m jumping the gun a bit. I’m basing my little sour problem on two beers, one of which may have been infected (eww) and the other that was just too sweet for my tastes. I’m glad everyone’s chimed in today – it makes me want to dive in and try everything.
Yup Don, I’ve been reading the reviews here. Good stuff! Figured I’d chime in and say high.
Jim, I’m in the same boat. I’ve had about the same number of sours and wonder what all of the fuss is about. I want to like them. So, if you find your gateway sour, let me know!
Trust me Chad, if I find a way in, I’ll let EVERYONE know!
You can take that to the bank Chad. My brother has the biggest mouth I know!
Since Todd gave his two cents about it, let me put up a link to an article that I wrote about lambics. It’s short and cursory but still talks about it. http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2009/01/29/style-series-lambic-ale/
Interesting article Mike. I haven’t tried any Lambics that I know of. I have had a Monk’s Cafe which I think uses cherries, but it is a Flemmish Sour Ale, so I don’t know if it is a lambic or not. But I do know it was interesting and very good. I’ll have to give this style a try.
Lambic is a pretty specific category. I really need to write a general article about sours, too. I think Monk’s is simply a Flanders Red.
Todd,
Most people are receptive to the way you shared. It’s when your tone comes across like a jerk that people get upset. You’re just fine.
Great post. Like Jim, the sour world is new to me as well so I’ve taken some notes!
Yeah, lots of info here for sure. I think sours represent something special to beer afficianados.