My most recent weekly post over at Today.com was about Prestige De Nuits, a Belgian Strong Ale that runs $45.00 a bottle. I nearly fainted when I saw the price tag on this one, but it won me over with its complexity and craftsmanship. Considering that this is a rare, world-class beverage, $45.00 for a bottle is somewhat of a bargain, especially when you think what a special wine might set you back. Prestige de Nuits isn’t a beer that I’d drink once a week, but it’d be a fun beer for a special occasion or to give as a “wow” gift to an appreciative beer geek.
That was my take on the situation, but I got ripped to ribbons in the comments, where folks (who probably have more common sense than yours truly) blasted the idea of a beer costing this much. Some even took issue with paying $20.00 a bottle, which makes sense when you consider the readership over there is a mix of beer geeks and regular folks.
Of all the grenades lobbed in my direction, one really stood out. It was from a guy who called himself Steve W, and he kinda ate my lunch:
I agree with 90% of what Steve is saying here – you can find wonderful, less expensive alternatives for many beers out there.
But I thought it was kind of exciting to see a beer this pricey on the shelves, a sign that craft beer has evolved to the point where a brewer can ask $45.00 for a special beer without it being a bottle of Dark Lord on eBay. All I saw was the opportunity to feel crazy decadent and enjoy something special and have it cost less than a meal at TGI Fridays.
But Steve might be on to something with the downside. This might be the first step on a slippery slope to joining the “wine snobs” (no offense) in overpaying for something just because paying more makes it taste more “special.” I don’t think that’s the case with Prestige de Nuits, but I could buy a whole lot of wonderful beer for the price of just that one.
At the end of the day, the revolt in the comments probably means that the total snobbification of beer isn’t anywhere near to being upon us. Craft beer, like anything else, is a supply and demand business. If people don’t want to pay for a pricey beer, it’ll sit on the shelf, just like the three bottles of Prestige De Nuits have been at my local beer store. Beer geeks will vote with their wallets, and the brewers will get the message.
So what do you think? Are beers like Prestige de Nuits an opportunity to go a little crazy without breaking the bank, or are they a sign that things are headed in the wrong direction? As always, let us know below!
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Beer & Whiskey Brothers 
I don’t mind the higher priced bottle so much as I do mind people’s flagship beers adding super fancy bottles or other price raising features that drive the price up on their everyday drinkers. The price of the high end bottle can still be perceived as a “value” if the quality is such. But when a beer used to cost $9 for a 6 pack, then changes into a new bottle and is now $9 for a 4 pack, I know the liquid hasn’t changed. The quality to price ratio has changed to the negative. The beers still great, but I now have to pay more to get the same quality. That’s where I feel the problem is going in the craft world.
Yeah, getting less for the same price is still getting less, unless the new bottles are made out of beer-flavored hard candy, then it’s hard to complain! 🙂
I’m not worried about joining the “wine snobs” as there’s no way on this earth I’d pay $45 for a bottle retail. I say “retail” because if dining out, there’s always a markup and since I have paid close to $45 for a bottle of wine (peanuts for most wine drinkers) I could see that much for a rare beer.
My concerns are more that this will cause the producers of lower-priced brews to realize they could raise their prices and still sell as much product.
I think the “price driver” part of the argument is valid, but I think this is suck an obscene leap that it won’t affect the pricing on “regular” stuff. I actually am more worried about bombers that cross the $20.00 mark – if people buy those, then the beers we can get for the high teens might start running in the low 20’s instead. I think this price creep is a much more real threat to our beer buying bucks than a crazy $45.00 brew.
For me, to be honest, it is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. My beer budget is small, and it seems like it’s stretching thinner all the time. Pricing, as well as the increasingly exclusive nature of many releases, seems to be favoring those with considerably more disposable income. It’s all starting to feel like some ridiculous dick measuring contest anymore, and I think that kinda sucks.
I think brewers are under pressure to create “special” beers for a couple of reasons. One, there’s money to be made, and people like money (this is a proven fact). Second, a brewer without an “exclusive” beer might seem a little less accomplished than one that has a “ungettable” as the Idaho crew likes to say. I agree that price creep sucks, but these guys and girls are going to respond to the market.
I think you are missing a bigger and better point. These “Special” beers is where 90% of the innovation in craft beer comes from. If Russian River hadn’t made Pliny the Elder, one of the first double IPAs out there, would I have a selection of 60 to choose from at my local bottle shop? Probably not, but that innovation is where the industry grows. Yes, you will pay more for them when they are “special” but once they join the ranks of everyday craft beers, their prices drop. Case in point the price for a bomber of Maharaja is still around $13 for a bomber, but if the style were more “exclusive” it would be more. Another example might be barrel aged anything. 5 years ago nobody was using barrels, today it has spawned a whole new line of breweries, and it is next to impossible to find a brewery that hasn’t barrel aged something. So the higher priced beers serve a very important purpose in the industry, and actually may help to keep costs lower that if they all just made a watery lager.
Agreed, but $45.00 a bottle is a lot to pay for the “innovation” of aging a Belgian Strong Ale in Burgundy wine barrels. Still, good point – eventually someone will be inspired to make such a fish for $20.00 a bottle – a beer that would never had been if Prestige deNuits hadn’t blazed the trail. Maybe Jeff up at Selkirk Abbey can get on this…
Also, I have a neat story to share about America’s (and possibly the world’s) first bourbon barrel aged beer. Hopefully I can get it done for tomorrow…
Jim, was this the best beer you’ve ever had? Would you stock up the way you do for Dragon’s Milk if price was no obstacle? If the answer is “no” then the beer is grossly overpriced.
I’ve never spent that much on one bottle. I cringe at spending more than $20 on one, but sometimes they’re worth it. Still, I hesitate to spend that much. Hell, I even avoid buying $12 bombers I’ve already had. It’s fun to try an expensive, rare beer now and again, but there are limits. And if you can get another beer for a fraction of those prices that’s just as good, why wouldn’t you?
I think we actually agree, Zac. You said “It’s fun to try an expensive, rare beer now and again, but there are limits.” Those are my thoughts exactly.
I’m just feeling a little confused as to why people are worried about offending “wine-snobs”. It seems to me that since it has always felt (to me at least) like their stock and trade is making other people feel inadequate or somehow lesser than them that they’d be the LAST people that we should worry about offending… After all, aren’t they so far above us that we couldn’t really offend them anyhow?
Ha ha – I thought the “no offense” Steve W added was aimed at beer folks who were just likened to wine people. He wasn’t apologizing to wine snobs, he was apologizing for calling beer geeks a dirty word! 🙂
If I’m going to pay $45 it’ll be on a bottle of Scotch not beer! While I love a good brew, I could never justify that kind of price tag.
Bert, I assume you’re talking about blended Scotch. Because if you’ve been following prices, getting a bottle of single malt for that price is getting pretty damned hard to do.
I agree there are better ways to spend $45.00 Bert, but every once in a while, it’s fun to try something crazy-expensive, no? Especially if you can get it for under $50.
Couple things. First, this IS an excellent beer, one that draws me up every time I have it.
Second, as the craft market expands out of the niche of people it’s been in since 1980, there is going to be a much wider range of people — and budgets — who will be drinking it, people who will think nothing of $45 a bottle for ‘the very best.’ I’m a cheap wine drinker, I love a good wine for under $15, but there are a lot of $50 bottles being sold in that market, and calling everyone who buys a $50 bottle a snob is not just wrong, it’s unfair.
Finally, we’re seeing this in bourbon, as very pricey bottles get released, and the more basic bottles rise in price…but they aren’t rising THAT much. Besides, we’ve known that bourbon was UNDERpriced for years, and now that it’s being discovered by more people, well, it’s going to get more expensive. Ask people who smoked good cigars during the 1990s about that.
There are going to be some expensive beers. We’re going to talk about it. Craft beer is still a great drink bargain. It’s not going to ruin the market. And…other people will have other opinions.
How about “bourgeois beer/wine drinkers” instead of “snobs”?
Bougie beer nerds!
Well said. You’re right. As the market expands to more people, more people with have differing interests and budgets to apply to this market. As I see it, a rising tide raises all boats.
I agree Lew – the craft beer marketplace will continue to evolve and expand to cater to every niche out there, and we’ll be right here to bitch about it!
Nothing wrong w/ letting the ‘market’ determine price. Nor, is there anything ‘wrong’ w/ price stratification in craft beers. Just as market forces and personal budgets determine the home we can afford, what ‘car’ we drive, what college we attend, where we vacation, or the clothes we wear, what’s ‘wrong’ w/ a hand crafted, limited release, small quantity craft beer from being niche market ‘priced’? And, the simple answer for those uncomfortable w/ that stratification / upscaled pricing: homebrewing!!
I think you can make the argument both ways and be 100% correct in your opinion, because it reflects your relationship with beer. If you can afford ultra-rare stuff, then Prestige de Nuits is a charming little treat. If it stretches past your budget, then it’s an unsettling trend.
In the end, there’ll be room for all budgets and types of beer drinkers, and plenty of beer for each to partake in as they unfold their opinion on the wonders/evils of pricey beers.
I’ve recently had a similar conversation with friends because I’m constantly chasing down rare beers and have often spent over $15 on a 22 oz. or 750ml bottle. I call it “beer hunting”. However, when we get up to the $45/bottle range I have to start thinking about my priorities. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to receive a bottle like this as a gift, but I can’t justify spending that kind of cash on myself. I try to use the cost of a nice bottle of wine to justify my expenses, but I typically split a bottle of wine, and the beer is all for me. So are pricey brews ruining craft beer? Probably not, but they are ruining my chances at trying everything. Luckily there’s plenty of great craft for me in the $5 – $15 range too.
I agree that $45.00 is a lot to plunk down on a beer, especially one just sitting there. It’s like beer hunting on a game range (stay away from Cheney, BTW, thank me later).
That said, this is a beer I’d buy with an occasion in mind, like Thanksgiving (which is the plan this year, as my in-laws will get a kick out of Prestige). I have to plan such a purchase – I wouldn’t grab this stuff on a whim, but it is a very, very lovely beverage.
I haven’t seen Cheney in the craft beer aisle, but I’ll be on the lookout. Thanks for the heads up.
I do spend a little extra for a special occasion beer now and then. I even have a bottle of 2010 Infinium in the beer cellar that I’ve been saving for just the right event. So you may have just talked me into picking up a bottle of Prestige De Nuits. Now the trick is finding a bottle before Cheney beats me to it.
If you can’t find one, they release again in October for the holidays.
P.S. – i deleted your duplicate comment. Sorry for the delay in approving it the first time!
This”wineification” of beer discussion has been going on for a while. It has been happening, it is happening, and it will continue to happen. Just look at the growing emphasis on pairing food with beer, beer pairing dinners, entire restaurants opening around the concept of pairing food with beer lately. This is something people have been doing with wine for centuries. And now beer, too. And it’s delicious development.
I’m down with it. And like you say, Jim, beer is still a great value compared to wine. I don’t see wineification as a necessary threat to craft beer. I see it as a broadening of craft beer diversity. Just look back to wine for an example. There are fabulous bottles of wine that can be had for $20 or less. Some on par with bottles that can add another digit, or even two, to their price tags. If you want a wonderful, expensive bottle of wine, go get one. If you want a wonderful, cheap bottle of wine, you can find one of those, too. It’s all good. Not sure why beer should be any different.
And as far as markets go, any market, it’s logical that price and product diversity happen. Their are top end exotic cars and there are entry level ones. There are Mini Coopers and then there is the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport Vitesse. Does Jim detest Bugatti for making a $2.25M car? I doubt it. He probably marvels at it’s craftsmanship, appreciates it for what it is, and then jumps in his Mini Cooper and has a blast powering it out of every apex on his way to and from work every day.
And you’re right, Jim, the market will ultimately decide. There were just a few Prestige Nuits bottles in town here, too. They sat on the shelf for about five or so months until the last one was gone. I’m sure they were thoroughly enjoyed by those that bought them. But they didn’t move too fast. Unlike Bugatti Veyrons.
Nicely said, Chad. And you get an extra point for weaving my manly car in there!
It reminds me of the last time I spoke with Sam from Dogfish. I was asking about Noble Rot, which is a 51-49 beer-wine hybrid. He’s a big proponent of the “wineification” of craft beer, as he thinks the beverage should be free to find its own level and be as appropriate as wine in all aspects of enjoyment.
I was going to go there in my post, too. I venture to guess breweries are generally down with wineification, too. Gives them more flexibility in the types of beers they can brew. If they want to make a beer that has crazy exotic ingredients and is aged in rare cognac barrels for years on end, fine. If people enjoy it, want it, and they can charge a proper price for it, go ahead and brew it.
I had some Noble Rot a couple of months ago. I liked it. Wish I could get it here. It’s one of those beers you can take to a party and expect it to convert some of your wine friends to craft beer. Not surprisingly, its nearly half wine. 🙂
As both a wine and beer lover (a man of many occasions…some times too many), I see the point of concern over the rising price of craft beer. I think there may be an upside to all of this:
In wine, as in beer, there are many companies that ‘bundle’ their product and sell it as collections (aka wine clubs, beer clubs). The average cost of a wine club membership is about $11 a bottle, and the club through which I order has never sent anything but delicious, event-making wines. yes, you do leave your selections in the hands of the company, but I have never been disappointed. I always receive full details of the wine, and have the opprotunity to order more of any type at this same ‘street value’ pricing. I have seen the same wines I get for the above mentioned price on shelves for substantially more.
Is it possible that these craft beer selections will go the same route? Have they already? If not, it might be something to explore. As I mentioned, I am both a wine and beer enthusiast. The conversation about the ‘wineification’ of beer might afford a look at this type of expansion, if it doesn’t already exist.
There are beer of the month clubs, and your mileage WILL vary based on the club and level of beers you choose to purchase.
One very major impediment to this notion is that Vineyards can self distribute, where breweries cannot. Stupid, but true. This keeps beer from being able to knock off that distributor mark up that you enjoy through your wine club. We need better beer laws.
Actually, here in NY brewers can self-distribute. And there are some tiny breweries producing great beer who are doing just that. But it’s true, varies state by state. It’d be great if every state had this law.
I think this kind of goes both ways. Yes, maybe rare or special beers will continue to rise in price, but if people decide they want to pay that then those beers should stay priced like that. If I can’t afford it, it sucks but all the rare/special beer in the world shouldn’t be cheap just because me or several other people can’t buy it.
With that being said, if I or someone else REALLY wants that rare/special beer then ultimately we can save or even go in 50/50 with a buddy like I have done before with pricey beers. I guess it can be seen as negative or positive.
The one thing pricing can do is sometimes either decrease or increase my enjoyment of a beer. I just recently reviewed a great tasting beer, but it did lose some points just because $14 for an 8oz bottle is a little steep. Now that’s not to say I won’t buy it again or that I didn’t enjoy it, but the value overall went down because the price threw me off a little.
The sharing idea is a good one. If you go in with three buddies, each pay $11.00, and you get a glassful of excellent beer you can bitch about not being worth the price! 😉
Just 45 bucks? What’s the big deal? Just start clipping some coupons to save money for it or even replace the night out at Chez Fancy and eat at Golden Corral. I imagine dipping cotton candy in the Chocolate Wonderfall is a tantalizingly awesome treat for cheap.
I think that chocolate waterfall is very, very appealing, especially with the cotton candy. I hear they have an insulin lick at the end of the dessert bar, just to make sure everybody make it home okay…
I remember paying $30 for a beer back in the 90s. I had just received my Christmas bonus and thought it would be fun to splurge a little for my New Year’s Eve watching Dick Clark (I believe the Spice Girls were the featured act that year). Not sure I have a point other than to say that expensive beers have been out there for a while and I doubt they have had any effect on the price of the every day six-packs we keep in our refrigerator.
As for beer snobbery, I don’t think price has anything to do with it – it’s more the attitude (prevalent in my city, unfortunately) that certain styles, along with the breweries that brew them, can’t possibly be good because they aren’t 10% or 95 IBU or they’re not barrel aged. There are a couple young breweries here that are all but ignored by the local “craft beer community” because they choose to brew affordable session beers rather than going after the beer snobs who palates are generally wrecked by IBU and alcohol after their first beer of the evening. The attitutde seems to be, in other words, “Drink local, unless that local brewery is trying to convert the Miller/Bud crowd with world class session beer.” One of those young breweries makes one of the best pilsners I have ever tried, and one of the top beers I have ever tasted was a cream ale by a very successful Asheville brewery, but when I bring that up with the local craft beer crowd, I get laughed at. It’s sad – they wouldn’t know a good beer under 50 IBU if they drowned in the keg.
Good point on the snobbery stuff, Craig. I find my tastes are constantly changing, and I get into little beer themes. I love big brews, especially barrel aged stuff, but lately I’ve been really getting into session beers. I bought a sixer of Yuengling Premium on Friday night and enjoyed each one over the course of the weekend when I had Dragon’s Milk in the fridge. Weird.
My wife took a sip of the Yuengling and said “it tastes like college.” Good times…good times…
Okay guys, we are talkin’ about BEER here–the drink of the common people, aka liquid bread and a food group in its own right–correct?
You wanna spend 45 bucks a pop for a bottle–that’s your choice (though the phrase ‘one born every minute’ comes to mind.) As for me, I will never (repeat never) spend 45 bucks for a bottle of beer…or wine. If craft beer were to go this way in toto (which I doubt), I’d just switch back to water. Until such time as somebody treats him to a bottle or glass, the average craft beer geek will go on living life and enjoying beer w/o ever tasting this stuff and never suffer suffer for it. There’s just too much good beer out there to worry about it.
Though 45 dollar beer is gonna appeal to a very limited market, as Don intimates, stuff like this does pave the way for new techniques that can later be applied to producing beer we are willing (and able) to buy. Just think of it as the equivalent of waiting to buy into a new technology–IPad, HDTV, cell phone, etc–until its had some time to mature and the price to drop. I can wait.
I guess the thing that got me about this one was that it was just sitting there with the other beers, quietly asking for double the money of anything else on the shelf. I was drawn to it because it shocked me that a beer can command such a price. I was curious to see what such a beer tastes like, and if it was worth it.
Funny thing is that I avoid $20.00 bombers, but get all excited about this pricier stuff – it has a weird allure. Like they say, there’s a Jim born every minute!
I’m conflicted with the comparison with wines. I realize that wine is an alcoholic beverage with a wide group of variations and pedigrees and a wider scale of price. But how does this compare to beer?
Beer uses grains which (thank God) are milled and brewed throughout the year in a continuous duty cycle. Beer also has a shelf life where time is not its friend. So short of using edible Rhodium as an adjunct, I simply don’t see how a beer could command such vast pricing.
Wine has a specific, narrow and unforgiving growing season where the fruit is still hand harvested and moved to the vintner for processing. Red wines use a myriad of fermenting and finishing techniques which typically use the most stubborn of commodities; time. Aged in vats, barrels and or bottles for times which can easily span decades. All the while rent, taxes and insurance are paid on buildings housing a product which will not see a single dollar for years. A very different model from a brewery.
Those limestone caves in France where the finest of wines are stored and aged in a perfect climate supplied by Mother Nature is difficult to compete with. Barrel aged beers would certainly require a greater price but nothing even approaching $20 a bottle. Not being a cheapskate, just realistic.
But craft beer has a major advantage over wine and even macro-brews. Wineries simply have to be near the grapes for reasons mentioned above. Monster breweries are mass volume driven with a pair or triad of offerings. A craft brewery only needs the talent and equipment to set up a brewery anywhere with water. Craft beers will have to thrive on variety, nimble responsiveness to customer tastes which can be custom made to local preferences. Once they have dialed in their specialty beer, they can export with a price increase based upon the cost of logistics and little more. Should demand for brand X continue to be exceptional in Muleshoe, Texas, one may consider starting another micro brewery in that location to meet demand. This technique is not a possibility for wines or macro-beers.
I agree wholeheartedly on this and one of the reasons why I don’t drink wine so much anymore (I was really becoming a vinophile a while back) because it is simply too expensive and the really cheap wines are really just the leftover crop with really high ABVs (in general). A good bottle of wine (not 1990 reserve) shouldn’t cost more than $50. On the whole, a good 22oz bottle of craft beer should not be more than $20. I have noticed prices creeping up more lately and some craft breweries hawking “special releases” at very high prices when they are just average beers.
random comment referencing bears.
If you want to pay that amount of money for a bottle of beer, go for it. Zac has it right, it’s okay to splurge on a bottle of something you’ve never had, and then go on to something else.
The problem is that the beer snobs out there will go out of their way to buy as many bottles of it as they can and then tell anyone in earshot that they drink it almost exclusively. They will be astounded that you haven’t tried it and imply that your beer tastes are somehow not refined enough if you have tried it and didn’t like it. And if you didn’t drink it out of the proper glass? Heathen!
To me this is the result of the ‘winefication’ of beer. I’ve heard much of the same talk as Craigt126 about beer drinkers putting down breweries that don’t produce high ABV, barrel aged, or experimental beers, especially about the smaller, more traditional brewers who try and craft the best beer with the basics instead of covering up shortcomings with exotic flavors. I seriously wish some beer geeks would put away their snobbery and just enjoy the beer being produced right under their upturned noses.
I think we need SaveOnBrew to conduct another survey to settle the matter!!
I find nothing wrong with going a bit nuts for a pricey bottle of beer on occasion. You mention wine snobs, but look at how much a bottle of good scotch (I am talking about 15 years old or older) costs. And yet no one comments on the snobishness about those prices.
That said, I find that the craft beers that are being made in this country are getting better all of the time. I got back from a vacation in London (for the Olympics) a week ago and while there I had the chance to attend the Great British Beer Fest. One of the booths there was sponsored by Sierra Nevada and was the only booth with American craft brews. While I did not get the chance to try any, I can get them here plus there were a total of 800 beers, there was a good size line of Brits that were drinking there. That is a good sign for American craft brewers.
I look at it as a special occasion thing, and nothing more.
The most I’ve ever paid for beer is $8.49 for a 22 oz. bottle – So. Tier Pumpkin Ale a few weeks ago. Before that I’ve paid $9.99 for a 4 pack of Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. And these are infrequent purchases. I love the craft beers but on a budget I need to stick with the “normal” craft beers – I usually try to get the 12 packs of something like Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, or Saranac on sale – somewhere between $13 and $18. When the financial situation allows I may experiment a little more, but I would rather not see craft beer venture into wine snob territory.